As probably the only reader of litfic I know (offline at least), I find myself asking these questions too. It seems though from certain subreddits that a lot of readers of litfic have certain imprints that are a marker of quality, same with certain lit mags. It’s hard to find good literary fiction because so much of it is so middlebrow. There’s a general understanding now that highbrow literature is going to come from indie presses and not be nominated for the Booker prize (though I think some of the recent winners are still quite a touch more elevated than your typical Sally Rooney novel).
These days I just keep my eye out on Substack for reviews. Anything that comes across the desks of Ross Barkan or John Pistelli are worth a look. And the funny thing is, book reviews are not the primary things they typically write.
Adam, thanks for your insights. That makes a lot of sense. If you have any favorite indie presses or lit magazines you'd like to recommend, feel free to drop them here. I only discovered indie presses about four years ago.
To your observation about book stores, I will add that lit fic readers are also less prone to be open to indie authors, at least in my experience. People who knew me very well started to loosen up a little and even in some cases read and liked my first book (which is both indie and fantasy). But the bias against indies in general remained strong in them.
By the way, lit fic aficionados are also more likely to want physical books instead of ebooks. Two of my more literary novels were the first to really get significant paperback sales in recent times.
All of that said, the more good indie lit fic there is, the more that prejudice will break down over time, so keep up the book work!
Bill, I believe you are spot on with your observations about lit fic readers being less open to indie authors and having a preference for physical copies. Thanks for bringing up these great points!
I am by no means an expert on this at all, but I wonder if there’s just more of an expectation of literary fiction to fit the category of classics, meaning that a lot of people who are perhaps new to classics assume that those books are just not being written anymore. There needs to be a TikToker who says “Hey, if you enjoyed these classic novels, here’s several new novels you’ll enjoy for similar reasons.” That said, I think a lot of people who are more casual readers are looking into romance and fantasy for that element of escapism from modern life, so perhaps there’s an element of not expecting themselves to enjoy these books as they don’t fit the category perfectly. 💚
Yes, that's a great point you make about certain readers being drawn to romance and fantasy for the escape. I eventually became shy about trying to talk to romance and fantasy fans about what I write and read for that reason ... the assumption that they'd be immediately repelled by the realism and not give the writing a fair chance because it's not what they typically read. Calling literary fiction novels modern classics does make it easier to understand what to expect from them. It would be great if there were more "modern classics" reviewers.
This is a good attempt at an always thorny question. I was taught that there are three types of fiction: character-driven, plot-driven, and idea-driven. Seems like your definition of literature confines it to idea-driven works. But don't a lot of literary writers start with character and let theme or idea emerge from that?
Anyway, your post may have prompted me to finally put together my own thoughts on the subject. Thanks!
Thanks, Larry! I've never seen the types of fiction broken out into those three categories. I used to start with character, but now I typically begin with themes, and then somehow, the characters emerge from them ... I guess my brain has some system of figuring out what types of characters should embody those themes. But I'm sure it works differently for every writer.
I'm interested to hear your additional thoughts on the subject, so I'll be looking for that post in the future.
I got those three types from my writing mentor, William Kittredge. It made sense to me. Character-driven was held up as the loftiest goal, with idea-driven coming in second, and plot-driven third. The danger with idea-driven is that characters can just become mouthpieces for ideas or themes, which I worry about with my current novel.
I liked the fresh way S.E. Reid characterized it: plot arises out of something a character knows they want, while theme arises out of something they don’t know they want. (I think I’ve got that right. Can’t tag her here with my phone to check.)
That does make sense. I'll definitely have to be cognizant of not letting the characters simply become mouthpieces for ideas. That's a great point. Thanks for sharing!
I think I get where you're coming from in this post now. It seems that even the world of literary fiction has moved more towards genre fiction. The winner of last year's Man Booker was a dystopian novel! So I've just realized that my view of these things is about ten years out of date, back when Rachel Cusk was bashing Sarah Waters for having too much plot. So I'm not sure I'll go ahead with the post I was contemplating.
That's an interesting observation. Thanks for sharing. Possibly the shortening of attention spans and fatigue of bad news, which you can get 24/7 in the palm of your hand, contributed to this strong shift toward escapism, affecting even literary fiction.
Great thoughts here. I agree with your definitions. You might enjoy Wellness by Nathan Hill. Great lit fic that has gotten some popular attention.
Thank you for reading, Clifford! And for the book recommendation. :)
As probably the only reader of litfic I know (offline at least), I find myself asking these questions too. It seems though from certain subreddits that a lot of readers of litfic have certain imprints that are a marker of quality, same with certain lit mags. It’s hard to find good literary fiction because so much of it is so middlebrow. There’s a general understanding now that highbrow literature is going to come from indie presses and not be nominated for the Booker prize (though I think some of the recent winners are still quite a touch more elevated than your typical Sally Rooney novel).
These days I just keep my eye out on Substack for reviews. Anything that comes across the desks of Ross Barkan or John Pistelli are worth a look. And the funny thing is, book reviews are not the primary things they typically write.
Adam, thanks for your insights. That makes a lot of sense. If you have any favorite indie presses or lit magazines you'd like to recommend, feel free to drop them here. I only discovered indie presses about four years ago.
Thought-provoking material!
To your observation about book stores, I will add that lit fic readers are also less prone to be open to indie authors, at least in my experience. People who knew me very well started to loosen up a little and even in some cases read and liked my first book (which is both indie and fantasy). But the bias against indies in general remained strong in them.
By the way, lit fic aficionados are also more likely to want physical books instead of ebooks. Two of my more literary novels were the first to really get significant paperback sales in recent times.
All of that said, the more good indie lit fic there is, the more that prejudice will break down over time, so keep up the book work!
Bill, I believe you are spot on with your observations about lit fic readers being less open to indie authors and having a preference for physical copies. Thanks for bringing up these great points!
I am by no means an expert on this at all, but I wonder if there’s just more of an expectation of literary fiction to fit the category of classics, meaning that a lot of people who are perhaps new to classics assume that those books are just not being written anymore. There needs to be a TikToker who says “Hey, if you enjoyed these classic novels, here’s several new novels you’ll enjoy for similar reasons.” That said, I think a lot of people who are more casual readers are looking into romance and fantasy for that element of escapism from modern life, so perhaps there’s an element of not expecting themselves to enjoy these books as they don’t fit the category perfectly. 💚
Yes, that's a great point you make about certain readers being drawn to romance and fantasy for the escape. I eventually became shy about trying to talk to romance and fantasy fans about what I write and read for that reason ... the assumption that they'd be immediately repelled by the realism and not give the writing a fair chance because it's not what they typically read. Calling literary fiction novels modern classics does make it easier to understand what to expect from them. It would be great if there were more "modern classics" reviewers.
This is a good attempt at an always thorny question. I was taught that there are three types of fiction: character-driven, plot-driven, and idea-driven. Seems like your definition of literature confines it to idea-driven works. But don't a lot of literary writers start with character and let theme or idea emerge from that?
Anyway, your post may have prompted me to finally put together my own thoughts on the subject. Thanks!
Thanks, Larry! I've never seen the types of fiction broken out into those three categories. I used to start with character, but now I typically begin with themes, and then somehow, the characters emerge from them ... I guess my brain has some system of figuring out what types of characters should embody those themes. But I'm sure it works differently for every writer.
I'm interested to hear your additional thoughts on the subject, so I'll be looking for that post in the future.
I got those three types from my writing mentor, William Kittredge. It made sense to me. Character-driven was held up as the loftiest goal, with idea-driven coming in second, and plot-driven third. The danger with idea-driven is that characters can just become mouthpieces for ideas or themes, which I worry about with my current novel.
I liked the fresh way S.E. Reid characterized it: plot arises out of something a character knows they want, while theme arises out of something they don’t know they want. (I think I’ve got that right. Can’t tag her here with my phone to check.)
That does make sense. I'll definitely have to be cognizant of not letting the characters simply become mouthpieces for ideas. That's a great point. Thanks for sharing!
I think I get where you're coming from in this post now. It seems that even the world of literary fiction has moved more towards genre fiction. The winner of last year's Man Booker was a dystopian novel! So I've just realized that my view of these things is about ten years out of date, back when Rachel Cusk was bashing Sarah Waters for having too much plot. So I'm not sure I'll go ahead with the post I was contemplating.
That's an interesting observation. Thanks for sharing. Possibly the shortening of attention spans and fatigue of bad news, which you can get 24/7 in the palm of your hand, contributed to this strong shift toward escapism, affecting even literary fiction.